Notes from underground

Below are my notes of the anti-bike comments from the RPV meeting on 9/26/16, so you can see the level of discourse, familiarity with the law, and general attitude that a small group of privileged, angry, NIMBY residents who live atop a hill in a gated community have towards cyclists on “their” public streets.

Lady: Atop Crest there isn’t enough space for bikes and motorists. I went to Copenhagen and Stockholm and saw how they handled cycling. They were very cycling friendly.  They have separated bike lanes. These cities are flat so they are conducive to large numbers of bikes getting along well with motorists. And the cyclists don’t even wear helmets! It would be very helpful to have signs on Crest saying “Bikes must ride single file to the right.”

Lady: Let’s elevate the discourse because last time there was name calling and bullying [She made this comment just before one of her compadres started giving the finger to the committee and throwing paper at other attendees]. Let’s work together. Residents are not bike haters, they’re just concerned residents who want to improve safety for all. Safety issues occur when cyclists take over the lane, ride in packs, or ride on the left side of the lane. Residents need to conduct their lives. Another problem is bikes going fast downhill and they’ve fallen over and that’s a hazard. I’m an RPV resident and I support signage for single file, ride to the right, and bikes shouldn’t have access to the lane.

Dude: One of the issues is that I was personally threatened driving home with children in my car when a biker hit my window. I was very frightened and no sheriff was around. Aggressive behavior is bad, we’re saying help us. You will eventually have an altercation with people who are not from this community. It’s the safety issue over and over again. There’s a bike lane and it should be used. Large groups are unsafe. There’s no reason to ride your bike all the way to Crest. This must be implemented for your safety and for our safety. There will be problems. Maybe we should limit the number of cyclists on the road. They have ways of controlling crowds like at Disney. Let’s find out the Disney rules for crowd control.

[Guy shouts at Kramer not to take photos, is told he’s out of order and that photos are legal in a public meeting. Guy flips off Kramer and is admonished by the deputy.]

Lady: It feels intimidating. It shouldn’t be you versus us. I grew up on the Hill and rode my bike downhill once; it’s harrowing and I never did it again. Most riders are experienced but some are old and teetering and I don’t want liability for hurting them. I know too much. I don’t want to hurt someone. It’s not fair. We’re forced to share. It’s big groups from out of town. They’re taking over. You’re supposed to drive to the right. They should be going slower than a car in most areas, in the middle of the lane they will stop everything. It should be single file. This is pure recreation and it’s a hazard and we’re forced to partake. I feel like it should be single file.

Dude: Kramer shouldn’t be on the committee. He has a conflict of interest. That doesn’t make any sense. I heard two stories, one at a party and a friend from Malibu comes here to ride every two weeks. They pay and ride RPV. They like the hills and it’s challenging. Someone’s making money. The city is not collecting permit fees. Traffic has gotten worse from bikers who come from ads in biking groups. On Thursday night after PV High’s open house five bikers were going around the turn. I’m going 45 they’re going 5 mph dressed in black. Police should be there this is safety. It’s not going to work. I would like to see less bicyclists on the road. Sharing should be the same. Obey the DMV.

Lady: We have a growing bike community and everything else, a huge increase in Abalone Cove deaths and severe accidents and visitors don’t know oceans and mountain roads. Hairpin turns. I prepared a huge memo, you’re lucky you didn’t read it. Joggers, beach cruisers and racers, motorcyclists, people with dogs. I gathered evidence and found tremendous mixed use. I used to ride horses here before you were born. Mountain bikers are dangerous and scare horses. We must have a vision for our semi-rural community. These are the pains of social media. Bicyclists camping on our vacant land. I’m thinking we should categorize roads like ski slopes. Some are good for bicyclists and others are not suitable for bicyclists. My son rides with Steve Bauer, a famous cyclist, he knows what he’s doing but those aren’t the people coming into our community.

Dude: Look at all these assault with a deadly weapon reports. By Greg Seyranian. All of the reports were just prior to Kramer’s presentation on traffic safety. Kramer’s phone number is on the tax returns for Big Orange. Kramer is the treasurer. Seyranian is also listed. Look at 2013 Big Orange tax returns. Same Kramer phone, the treasurer, Kramer is more than just a member. He is Big Orange. He’s the agent for service of process. He’s one of the founders, the treasurer. Please recuse yourself as it concerns Big Orange.

Lady: At the last meeting I was shocked there were no reported accidents. I found five specific accident and traffic collision reports. Four were caused by bikes. You need to get all the facts. There is a 3-foot law inconsistency. It’s not possible to comply with the 3-foot law and stay in your own lane. You might better understand our position. I think that there is an agenda and it’s to enact bikes may use full lane curriculum. It’s advertised on Big Orange web site. That agenda needs to be addressed so it doesn’t become part of a campaign. I’m glad you brought up respect. It’s hard to come up and talk in public. It’s discouraging when they’re publicly ridiculed. We are not morons for articulating our concerns. The passive-aggressive commentary is symptomatic of the behavior that raises these conflicts. Please consider all the interests.

Dude: I’ve been living here over 16 years. No choice but to drive the road. Bikes are toys. You know there is a blind spot? We are careful. You get more nervous from bikes. How can we keep distance? We’re waiting until the road is wider then swing by but it’s a dangerous situation. We don’t have a choice but to drive this road. We pay taxes, bikers never pay no taxes, we don’t have a choice but you have a choice to buy a bike and you have a choice to go somewhere else. Please go somewhere else. That’s what we ask you. Avoid the danger. Avoid accidents. Protect their lives. If car and bike hit who’s gonna get more damage? If I want to ride a bike I go to a park. We have no choice but they do.

Dude: Riding the hill on Saturday morning is advertised by Big Orange. They stop at Crest. It seems sponsored. It’s a great opportunity for more policing. Funding through permits to keep bicycles and motorists safe. The ordinance should apply to Big Orange and to all groups who use Crest for training. Kramer should recuse himself because of conflict of interest.

Dude: I’m a resident and runner. I have observed bikers in RHE and RPV, I have seen the number grow enormously. It used to be five or so now there are 35 or 40. Sanitary issues. Treat the Donut Ride as a special event and require a permit. It will put LASD on notice and give them the opportunity to monitor conduct of riders. Many in large groups violate 21202. The city should ensure the safety of the roads. The city is liable if roads are not safe.

Dude: There used to be a sign saying “road unsuitabe for bicycles.” I missed when they made it suitable. You can’t keep up with vehicles. Going downhill maybe you can. I live at the top. Bikers are on the inside line. This is our only road! I don’t know, but if you’re a bike nazi, that’s not getting along.

Lady: There’s been a great increase in bikes, let’s monitor them, I’m all for it. My son and husband are great bicyclists. The bad ones impede traffic, they cause rear ending from their poor riding skills. Many groups are here and more coming. We need to keep this semi-rural environment for us.

Lady: What is an organic ride? It’s Big Orange local rides. The Donut Run and anti-Donut Run. Top ten rides on PV. Groups that are regularly riding as part of an organized situation. We are not wanting to approach adversarially. Residents are raising safety concerns by observed safety incidents on roads not safe for bikes, pedestrians, and motorists need to be addressed and the statute applies and until revisited it should be uniformly applied.

Lady: I’m a Crest resident. I’d like to see us live here safely. How will you enforce the ordinance? This is new and we’ll set parameters. The ordinance is to manage people and it takes money and when the city looks at enforcement, girls walking around isn’t a safety issue, but if we have funding we can intro a pilot program to see what data we have. As we develop guidelines we should look at it. Or if they’re not impinging then the groups shouldn’t be included.

Dude: There’s an impact, let’s look at the impact. Where are the needed rest stops at Marymount? Additional law enforcement to cite motorists and pedestrians. Funding from somewhere. Big Orange can’t say we are not responsible. Girl scouts don’t impact, runners and Sierra Club don’t impact. This is a good time to say let’s try it.

Dude: Certain time too, a certain time. Liability and making sure they have some kind of insurance policy. Whoever posts about the ride is responsible. Clearly it is advertising. Notice for the event shouldn’t be 90 days should be in a week, five days. Hand them a sticker or something or we should have police just designated for that ride. Certain areas should have rest rooms, different containment, stop refresh, and ride in a singe file lane. I’ve driven behind some shaky legs. I disagree about lemonade stands. There’s no liability to us for girl scouts that would apply to that.

Lady: I can understand organic rides. But a lady told me they had time trials going up and down Crest. You can’t relieve yourself in public. I’m sure you’re very good about that Mr. Kramer.



For $2.99 per month you can subscribe to this blog and support the antidote to tinfoil crazypants: reason, fact, law. Click here and select the “subscribe” link in the upper right-hand corner. Thank you!


38 thoughts on “Notes from underground”

  1. It’s amazing that people actually think and express themselves this way. It’s funny except that it isn’t.

    I guess that 10 seconds (or hell, even 10 minutes) of being inconvenienced by cyclists is so insufferable that law, morality and common decency disappear from their worldview.

    We are a nation of laws. I hope that law prevails here, rather than a ridiculous bending to accommodate the total selfishness of a few.

    1. Well, well put. Like Sandwichboard Man, who was surprised that no one challenged him to a fistfight at a city council meeting. “Nation of laws? What? Duh? I thought we was a 142 IQ nation of fisticuffs.”

  2. You made my morning…except for the coffee spray on the monitor!

    “I prepared a huge memo, you’re lucky you didn’t read it.” Yes, I am.

    “Bicyclists camping on our vacant land” reallly? really?

  3. with people who are not from this community.

    Maybe PV needs a Critical Mass ride? Do they even still do those?

    I LOVE local politics. You get to see people as they really are by the positions they take on meaningless issues like a few signs.

    1. Freedom of speech has so many virtues, not the least of which is giving people the opportunity to show their true colors.

  4. I was there and I think this sums it up perfectly. Kramer handled himself professionally in light of the outbursts and the constant attacks. They want him to recuse himself but he stands nothing to gain by a committee recommendation (financially or otherwise) except his safety/life. That is the end goal of any cyclist in all of this — to keep ourselves safe from getting killed. When you step back and think about this, it is more atrocious than the opposition to other movements where rights were being gained (to vote, work, land). This is our right to simply exist and not be killed! And we have to fight? Wow.

    1. Yes. And I’d like everyone who drives a car to recuse himself from working for CalTrans. Conflict of interest, yo.

  5. Best morning read I’ve had in a while….hard to believe this is real. I know you are creative in your writing sometimes, but this is so out there there it is even beyond your talent so has to be true. “Pilot programs”…”hand them a sticker”….”needed rest stops” …. This stuff is just wild.

    Any way to get a hold of the “huge memo”? I’m always looking for an entertaining afternoon coffee read.

  6. “They’re old and teetering… And they’re taking over!”
    Please clarify – are you cycling up there or are you having a zombie walk? 😉

    1. This is the NIMBYs way of saying some of the cyclists are old. Of course several of the NIMBYs were teetering up to the lectern, and many were carry so much excess stomach baggage that the only way they could get up Crest is with a winch.

  7. I grew up in RPV. My parents live in the same house. On behalf of a former RPV resident – I apologize for these nimrods who showed up.

  8. It seems so simple. No anger. We LOCAL cyclists are trying to educate drivers in ALL of California…(NOT just in PV or RPV)…what the laws are on the road, concerning bicycles (thus the new signage) MANY drivers simply don’t know that we belong in the road, and LAW supports that right. The residents response should be more like this: “OHHH, i didn’t know this was the law…WOW, i will have to adjust my thoughts and driving accordingly.”
    If drivers/residents don’t like the law, i get that…but i would then suggest a trip to Sacramento…
    And as far a David Kramer goes…RPV couldn’t have a better advocate for traffic safety, be it for cars,pedestrians, or cyclists. He’s an amazing human being.

    1. Michelle landes

      Agree Kramer is pure class you Greg are made from the same cloth !! We are lucky in the southbay to have you both!!

    1. Holy. Crap. My. P
      ants. Even you can’t make this stuff up, and I’ve a lot of your old stuff…

  9. Old and teetering and riding toys?All these years reading this blog I was under the impression you guys are hardcore racers with -12% body fat.

  10. Girls walking around is definatly a safety issue. I once saw a car accident caused by a girl walking on the sidewalk distracting motorists. Obviously she did not have a permit to be dressed like that.

  11. Like listening to Donald Trump, reading this made me wonder “What would be less painful: finish reading the statements of these idiotic privileged whiny baby asses, or stick a sharp pencil into my left eyeball?” I may have monocular vision now, but that was a relief!

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: